The logic of faith: Back to Sinai and the drawing board

On the Roshpinaproject site, I (Bography) have been in dialogue with Yash613 (613 Torah Mitsvos “Laws”) who runs “True Messianic Judaism.” The springboard for our dialogue was a debate between Rabbi Tovia Singer and the Messianic leader David Rosenberg. Yash613 and I were discussing how someone comes to faith and belief in the scriptures.

The sapplings of our discussion got sucked into the forest of other related discussions under the same rubric of “Rabbi Tovia Singer Debates Messianic leader David Rosenberg.” There are two parts to the discussion: a short exchange followed by “The logic of faith.”

Bography to Yash613:

I think a large part of the problem is related to what the NT says the Tanakh said.

Some argue that Matthew or some other NT “author” (in contradistinction to 1. the person who physically wrote and 2. God as “author”) did not say this or did not say that, or if he did say it, he was schlemazel.

Jesus didn’t say this, Jesus didn’t say that,” like an mind-numbing mantra. And if he did say that he was a shlemazel too, and far worse.

Two things: 1. one a bit difficult, 2. the other easy.

1. Study some history and textual criticism of the NT.

2. Ask Christ to reveal Himself to you.

Here’s the funny thing about 2. if you desire Jesus Christ to reveal himself to you, then he already has. Why is this so? Why, dumbo (forgive), if you asked Him to do such a thing, it means that He has already wired himself into you, and shocked you back to Life – WEIRD.

NB – if you’ve done No. 2 No.1 is not necessary.

Yash613 to Bography:

Personally, I prefer logic to drive me to conclusions, rather than emotional experiences, dreams, visions and any other unverifiable, unprovable things that could just as easily be achieved with marijuana or LSD.

For logical based reasoning, read my blog Bography to Yash613:

Yash, you contrasted logic and emotions. There is another major factor, which you haven’t mentioned: Hashem’s role in faith, for example, the faith described in the Tanakh. The way you put it, it’s logic alone that drives you to faith.

I haven’t forgotten your blog.

Yash613 to Bography

That is a fair point, bography. But faith alone can lead you very far astray.Faith needs to be based on something logical.If one person says ‘I believe G-d is a man’ and another person says ‘I believe G-d could never be a man’. You cannot believe in both. That would be absurd, and misplaced faith

Bography to Yash613

I’m with you when you say that just because the Ruach Hakodesh blows on a person/a people, it doesn’t mean that the prerequisite to being blown upon, is a mental blow out.

Here is a Chabad.org’s chalkboard description of the revelation at Sinai. What do you consider the logical elements involved?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2047/jewish/The-Revelation-at-Sinai.htm

The dawn of the third day broke amid thunder and lightning that filled the air. Heavy clouds hung over the mountain, and the steadily growing sounds of the Shofar made the people shake and tremble with fear. Moses led the children of Israel out of the camp and placed them at the foot of Mount Sinai, which was all covered by smoke and was quaking, for G-d had descended upon it in fire.

The sound of the Shofar grew louder, but suddenly all sounds ceased, and an absolute silence ensued; and then G-d proclaimed the Ten Commandments…”

Yash has up to now not replied to my last post. Instead of sinking into a deep depression over his silence, I thought I’d write the following piece relevant to the discussion:

THE LOGIC OF FAITH: A wish-you-were-here-Yash- all-613-of-you monologue

Yash

You asked me to go to your site to see how a human mind should work. I’m not sure where to find the stuff you mean. I did, though, come across your “Do They Really Want us to Think for Ourselves?”

http://messianicjews.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/do-they-really-want-us-to-think-for-ourselves/

You say that Jews for Jesus don’t want people to think for themselves; they want other Jews to play dead so that they (Jews for Jesus) can pervert Jewish minds to Jesus Christ.

People are dead in sin and unable to believe in Christ unless He first turns their MINDS to understand what they are not able to understand by themselves. The Bible is very clear – many Christians don’t get it – that the reason why someone doesn’t understand (God, Christ) is because they can’t (are unable to).

You would say that no one’s MIND can really be dead. Catholics agree. Here is Aquinas’s view of the Fall of man, which represents the Catholic position:

[Thomas]Aquinas had an incomplete view of the Fall. He thought that the Fall did not affect man as a whole but only in part. In his view the will was fallen or corrupted, but the intellect was AFFECTED [SIC]. Thus people could rely on their own human wisdom, and this meant that people were free to mix the teachings of the Bible with the teachings of the non-Christian philosophers.”

http://worldwidefreeresources.com/upload/CH310_T_29.pdf.

The writer meant to say that the will was corrupted but the INTELLECT was UNaffected! A Jew would possibly deny that he is mixing hisTorah logic with non-Christian (Greek) philosophy. The Greeks, though, didn’t have a patent on philosophical thought. For example, what could be more Jewish (AND more Greek) than the LOGOS of John’s Gospel (John 1).

Rey at the RoshpinaProject has written an interesting and well-researched article in which he says:

(“Memra” means the “WORD” which is equivalent to LOGOS. Memra is an Aramaic word used in the Targum, See Rey’s article).

“The interpretation of the meaning of the words logos and memra shows that Judaism and Christianity hold some of the same theological tenets. The following study, although brief, bears out the fact that both persuasions have followers who believe that these two words mean the Word of God who is a Person.

Although the Greek word logos, which originated as a concept of the Stoics, can have different meanings, when John uses it in his gospel and epistles it takes on a distinct spiritual meaning, as in the following:

In the beginning was the word [logos] and the word was with God, and the word was God [John 1:1].

In this opening verse of the Gospel of John, logos is shown as both eternal and pre-existent. It is at the same time introduced as one with God the Father—”was God”—and also distinct from God the Father—”with God.”

John also uses the word logos in his first epistle as follows:

That which was with us from the beginning… of the Word of life [1 John 1:1].

…the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost … [1 John 5:7].

Logos in the above two verses of the Gospels and Letters has the same meaning as it has in John 1:1 when context is considered.”

Jews are ostensibly very logical and always have ostensibly been so from the day God called Abraham out of Ur. A Jew will probably say that Abraham saw the urgency; that it was not some sudden urge but rather a lucid appraisal of what he was – an idol worshipper, and what he could be – a worshipper of the One True God. Among some of the great promises God made to Abraham and his descendants was this irresistible one: “And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed” (Genesis 12:3b). To fulfil this role for the nations, Abraham had to be not only holy but also wise. And what was the very Jewish (and Greek) supreme maxim of metaphysika? It was that logic is “wisdom of the first kind” (Aristotle), that is, logic is the mother of all wisdom.

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/metaphysics.mb.txt.

Did Abraham’s faith emerge from a lucid appraisal? The Bible doesn’t say that about Abraham’s faith. It’s all about God, and little about Abraham. It’s Torah logic. Yash, you talk more like a Mordecai Kaplan (the founder of Reconstructionist Judaism) than a Torah Jew. The Reconstructionist is – deep in his tripes – a rationalist; an Aristotelian. And, as you probably know, Reconstructionists reject the pivotal Torah doctrine of chosenness. They hold the view that the Torah, indeed God, is a mental construct, the greatest mental construct of all time; and it is the brilliance of that construct that places the Jew above the goyim.

https://onedaringjew.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/the-spirit-of-reconstructionist-judaism/

What is the Orthodox doctrine of chosenness? “Why were the Jews chosen? (asks the JewishVirtualLibrary) Because they are descendants of Abraham. And why were Abraham and his descendants given the task of making God known to the world? THE TORAH NEVER TELLS US [My capitals]. What God does say in Deuteronomy, is that “it is not because you are numerous that God chose you, indeed you are the smallest of people” (7:7). Because of the Jews’ small numbers, any success they would have in making God known to the world would presumably reflect upon the power of the idea of God. Had the Jews been a large nation with an outstanding army, their successes in making God known would have been attributed to their might and not to the truth of their ideas.”

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/chosen_people.html

Where did “the truth of their ideas” come from? To answer that question, we need to make more of the term “smallest” of the people – by making less of its literal meaning of “not many.”

כִּֽי־אַתֶּם הַמְעַט מִכָּל־הָעַמִּֽים׃ – “because you were the least מְעַט “m’at”

I prefer Young’s LITERAL translation, which, ironically (HOW ODD OF GOD – TO CHOOSE THE JEWS), emphasises the figurative meaning of “smallest”, namely, the “least” of all the peoples.

Not because of your being more numerous than any of the peoples hath Jehovah delighted in you, and fixeth on you, for ye are the least of all the peoples” ( Deut. 7:7; Young’s literal translation).

This figurative meaning seems to be the best, because human beings associate size with significance – as they do today: the biggest house, the biggest muscles, the biggest brain, the biggest wedding furniture. Why did God choose the Jews? Because he wanted to. Why did He want to? Because it pleased Him. And that is the grand Torah logic of chosenness (election, predestination), which continues on into the New Testament. Chosenness does not depend on foreseen faith or good works, or anything else outside of God, but exclusively on God’s sovereign good pleasure. If God “foreknows” you it means He “foreloved” you. This description of chosenness is at odds with all forms of Judaism, which I find odd, seeing that Deuteronomy 7:7 can mean nothing else. Most people believe that man ultimately chooses God, Deut 7:7 says no. Christ, continuing in the same vein, shed his blood for the truth that “I have chosen you, you haven’t chosen me” (John 15:16). But, doesn’t Deuteronomy also contain passages where we are commanded to choose God if we want God’s blessing. Yes that is true. The point is this: God chooses the ends (results) and the means. His end here is salvation of his elect, which is entirely of the Lord. Goes this mean that those who are saved do nothing, don’t exercise their will? Of course not. The point is that the means  the Lord uses to gather his elect is faith out of which flows obedience to his law. The Lord makes us free to love and obey him, that is, he releases us from the bondage of our (reprobate) wills. 

Here is a rhetorical question that applies to both Torah Jew and Messianic Jew, and all who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. It’s a question asked by the Jew Matityahu Glazerson (in his Philistine and Palestinian, p. 90): “What does a Jew have other than his faith.” The pillar of that faith is the “Ten commandments.” The base of that pillar is the revelation of God in the fire and the cloud. It was Faith, not logic, that came to lodge in the hearts and minds of a people, that came to dwell. But the Jew has never – in spite of his interminable sabbaths – been able to enter his rest. The writer of the letter to the Hebrews explains why: “And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.” Although the writer to the Hebrews ascribes this restlessness to those who rejected the LORD of Glory in Jewish history. his brief, extends far beyond the past and into the present and future – to those who reject the LORD of Glory who was made the perfect sacrifice for the atonement of sin.

Where’s the logic in all this? My Christian brethren ooh and aah when I tell them I’m a Jew. They tell me – it’s hard to stay humble – how clever Jews are. I presume that if you’re clever – or crafty – you’re ipso facto logical. There is no doubt that Jews are clever, but there is also a select (if not elect) spread of shlemiels. The cleverness comes from God. And the shlemielkeit? It seems to come from nowhere but themselves. But, then isn’t it God who stops up the ears and blinds the eyes as well. You can’t win.

Jews think that all Christians are shlemiels because they believe in a man who says He is God (or because they believe – I’m catering for those whose bent is not history – in men who say that another man said he was God). Now where did I read about shlemiels in the Bible?

And he (Jesus) said to them, “O shlemiels, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken…” (Luke 24:25).

On the Roshpinaproject site, I (Bography) have been in dialogue with Yash613 (613 Torah Mitsvos “Laws”) who runs “True Messianic Judaism.” The springboard for our dialogue was a debate between Rabbi Tovia Singer and the Messianic leader David Rosenberg. Yash613 and I were discussing how someone comes to faith and belief in the scriptures.

There are two parts to the discussion: a short exchange followed by “The logic of faith and chosenness.”

Bography to Yash613:

I think a large part of the problem is related to what the NT says the Tanakh said.

Some argue that Matthew or some other NT “author” (in contradistinction to 1. the person who physically wrote and 2. God as “author”) did not say this or did not say that, or if he did say it, he was schlemazel.

“Jesus didn’t say this, Jesus didn’t say that,” like an mind-numbing mantra. And if he did say that he was a shlemazel too, and far worse.

Two things: 1. one a bit difficult, 2. the other easy.

1. Study some history and textual criticism of the NT.

2. Ask Christ to reveal Himself to you.

Here’s the funny thing about 2. if you desire Jesus Christ to reveal himself to you, then he already has. Why is this so? Why, dumbo (forgive), if you asked Him to do such a thing, it means that He has already wired himself into you, and shocked you back to Life – WEIRD.

NB – if you’ve done No. 2 No.1 is not necessary.

Yash613 to Bography:

Personally, I prefer logic to drive me to conclusions, rather than emotional experiences, dreams, visions and any other unverifiable, unprovable things that could just as easily be achieved with marijuana or LSD.

    For logical based reasoning, read my blog

Bography to Yash613:

    Yash

You contrasted logic and emotions. There is another major factor, which you haven’t mentioned: Hashem’s role in faith, for example, the faith described in the Tanakh. The way you put it, it’s logic alone that drives you to faith.

Yash613 to Bography

    That is a fair point, bography. But faith alone can lead you very far astray.Faith needs to be based on something logical.If one person says ‘I believe G-d is a man’ and another person says ‘I believe G-d could never be a man’. You cannot believe in both. That would be absurd, and misplaced faith

Bography to Yash613

I’m with you when you say that just because the Ruach Hakodesh blows on a person/a people, it doesn’t mean that the prerequisite to being blown upon, is a mental blow out.

Here is a Chabad.org’s chalkboard description of the revelation at Sinai. What do you consider the logical elements involved?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2047/jewish/The-Revelation-at-Sinai.htm

“The dawn of the third day broke amid thunder and lightning that filled the air. Heavy clouds hung over the mountain, and the steadily growing sounds of the Shofar made the people shake and tremble with fear. Moses led the children of Israel out of the camp and placed them at the foot of Mount Sinai, which was all covered by smoke and was quaking, for G-d had descended upon it in fire.

The sound of the Shofar grew louder, but suddenly all sounds ceased, and an absolute silence ensued; and then G-d proclaimed the Ten Commandments…”

Yash has up to now not replied to my last post. Instead of sinking into a deep depression over his silence, I thought I’d write the following piece relevant to the discussion:

THE LOGIC OF FAITH AND CHOSENNESS

You asked me to go to your site to see how a human mind should work. I’m not sure where to find the stuff you mean. I did, though, come across your “Do They Really Want us to Think for Ourselves?”

http://messianicjews.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/do-they-really-want-us-to-think-for-ourselves/

You say that Jews for Jesus don’t want people to think for themselves; they want other Jews to play dead so that they (Jews for Jesus) can pervert Jewish minds to Jesus Christ.

In my post above, I said that people are dead in sin and unable to believe in Christ unless He first turns their MINDS to understand what they are not able to understand by themselves. The Bible is very clear – many Christians don’t get it – that the reason why someone doesn’t understand (God, Christ) is because they can’t (are unable to).

You would say that no one’s MIND can really be dead. Catholics agree. Here is Aquinas’s view of the Fall of man, which represents the Catholic position:

[Thomas]Aquinas had an incomplete view of the Fall. He thought that the Fall did not affect man as a whole but only in part. In his view the will was fallen or corrupted, but the intellect was AFFECTED [SIC]. Thus people could rely on their own human wisdom, and this meant that people were free to mix the teachings of the Bible with the teachings of the non-Christian philosophers.”

http://worldwidefreeresources.com/upload/CH310_T_29.pdf

The writer meant to say that the will was corrupted but the INTELLECT was UNaffected! You would possibly deny that you are mixing your Torah logic with non-Christian (Greek) philosophy. The Greeks, though, didn’t have a patent on philosophical thought. For example, what could be more Jewish (AND more Greek) than the LOGOS of John’s Gospel (John 1). Hebrews are ostensibly very logical and always have ostensibly been so from day God called Abraham out of Ur.

A Jew will probably say that Abraham saw the urgency; that it was not some sudden urge but rather a lucid appraisal of what he was – an idol worshipper, and what he could be – a worshipper of the One True God. Among some of the great promises God made to Abraham and his descendants was this irresistible one: “And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed” (Genesis 12:3b). To fulfil this role for the nations, Abraham had to be not only holy but also wise. And what was the very Jewish (and Greek) supreme maxim of metaphysika? Is was that logic is “wisdom of the first kind” (Aristotle), that is, logic is the mother of all wisdom.

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/metaphysics.mb.txt

Did Abraham’s faith emerge from a lucid appraisal? The Bible doesn’t say that about Abraham’s faith. It’s all about God, and little about Abraham. It’s Torah logic. Yash, you talk more like a Mordecai Kaplan (the founder of Reconstructionist Judaism) than a Torah Jew. The Reconstructionist is – deep in his tripes – a rationalist; an Aristotelian. And, as you probably know, Reconstructionists reject the pivotal Torah doctrine of chosenness. They hold the view that the Torah, indeed God, is a mental construct, the greatest mental construct of all time; and it is the brilliance of that construct that places the Jew above the goyim.

https://onedaringjew.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/the-spirit-of-reconstructionist-judaism/

What is the Orthodox doctrine of chosenness? “Why were the Jews chosen? (asks the JewishVirtualLibrary) Because they are descendants of Abraham. And why were Abraham and his descendants given the task of making God known to the world? THE TORAH NEVER TELLS US [My capitals]. What God does say in Deuteronomy, is that “it is not because you are numerous that God chose you, indeed you are the smallest of people” (7:7). Because of the Jews’ small numbers, any success they would have in making God known to the world would presumably reflect upon the power of the idea of God. Had the Jews been a large nation with an outstanding army, their successes in making God known would have been attributed to their might and not to the truth of their ideas.”

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/chosen_people.html

Where did “the truth of their ideas” come from? To answer that question, we need to make more of the term “smallest” of the people – by making less of its literal meaning of “not many.”

כִּֽי־אַתֶּם הַמְעַט מִכָּל־הָעַמִּֽים׃ – “because you were the least מְעַט“m’at”

I prefer Young’s LITERAL translation, which, ironically (HOW ODD OF GOD – TO CHOOSE THE JEWS), emphasises the figurative meaning of “smallest”, namely, the “least” of all the peoples.

Not because of your being more numerous than any of the peoples hath Jehovah delighted in you, and fixeth on you, for ye are the least of all the peoples” ( Deut. 7:7; Young’s literal translation).

This figurative meaning seems to be the best, because human beings associate size with significance – as they do today: the biggest house, the biggest muscles, the biggest brain, the biggest wedding furniture. Why did God choose the Jews? Because he wanted to. Why did He want to? Because it pleased Him. And that is the grand Torah logic of chosenness (election, predestination), which continues on into the New Testament. Chosenness does not depend on foreseen faith or good works, or anything else outside of God, but exclusively on God’s sovereign good pleasure. If God “foreknows” you it means He “foreloved” you. This description of chosenness is at odds with all forms of Judaism, which I find odd, seeing that Deuteronomy 7:7 can mean nothing else. Most people believe that man ultimately chooses God, Deut 7:7 says no. Christ, continuing in the same vein, shed his blood for the truth that “I have chosen you, you haven’t chosen me” (John 15:16). But, doesn’t Deuteronomy also contain passages where we are commanded to choose God if we want God’s blessing. Yes that is true, and can be confusing. If, however, you believe that all scripture is God-breathed then there must be two kinds of choosing, which do not contradict each other. If we trust scripture then we need to submit to it in humility and apply ourselves to its study – daily, as true disciples; if a Jew, disciples of Adonai, if Christian, disciples of Christ, whom Christians believe is Adonai as well.

Here is a rhetorical question that applies to both Torah Jew and Messianic Jew, and all who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. It’s a question asked by the Jew Matityahu Glazerson (in his Philistine and Palestinian, p. 90): “What does a Jew have other than his faith.” The pillar of that faith is the “Ten commandments.” The base of that pillar is the revelation of God in the fire and the cloud. It was Faith, not logic, that came to lodge in the hearts and minds of a people, that came to dwell. But the Jew has never – in spite of his interminable sabbaths – been able to enter his rest. The writer of the letter to the Hebrews explains why: “And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.” Although the writer to the Hebrews ascribes this restlessness to those who rejected the LORD of Glory in Jewish history. his brief, extends far beyond the past and into the present and future – of those who reject the LORD of Glory who was made the perfect sacrifice for the atonement of sin.

Where’s the logic in all this? My Christian brethren ooh and aah when I tell them I’m a Jew. They tell me – it’s hard to stay humble – how clever Jews are. I presume that if you’re clever – or crafty – you’re ipso facto logical. There is no doubt that Jews are clever, but there is also a select (if not elect) spread of shlemiels. The cleverness comes from God. And the shlemielkeit? It seems to come from nowhere but themselves. But, then isn’t it God who stops up the ears and blinds the eyes as well. You can’t win.

Jews think that all Christians are shlemiels because theybelieve in a man who says He is God (or because they believe – I’m catering for those whose bent is not history – in men who say that another man said he was God). Now where did I read about shlemiels on the Bible?

And he (Jesus) said to them, “O shlemiels, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken…” (Luke 24:25).

Advertisements

10 thoughts on “The logic of faith: Back to Sinai and the drawing board

  1. Shalom!
    A very good and in-depth post that will need my “old” brain to be in operation for a while so I have downloaded it for further study. Thank you!
    I have one observation to make, and that is the “Faith” issue. Once HaShem managed to get it through my thick skull that Emunah is not “faith”, but “FAITHFULNESS” it became easier for me to understand Abraham’s relationship with HaShem rather than, or opposed to the other crowd who bandy “faith” around as if it is something to be sold.
    FAITHFULNESS takes (1) A FEAR of the Almighty. (2) Absolute TRUST in the Almighty and (3) Absolute OBEDIENCE to the Almighty. Take these three and put them in the melting pot and you end up with what Israel (the Jews, if you must) should be. G-D fearing, Torah Observant people, small in number but bringing Glory to HaShem. Take this and fit the greatest Jew who ever lived – Yeshua HaMashiach. IF His followers (whatever label you put on them) actually followed Him we would not have Tovia Singer singing in our ears.
    Only my two pennies worth!
    Barry

  2. Bography, i did reply to your comments very soon after you posted them, they still have not as yet appeared on the post and I dont know why – wordpress does occasionally delay for some reason.

    Please be patient and I hope it will come up soon!

    • Yash
      I also posted something more on our discussion, but like you, nothing appeared on the Roshpinaproject site. Hope they sort this out.

  3. (Oh, and that post you quoted was not written by me, rather by Penina Taylor, who I referenced in the post itself, so feel free to respond to her personally)

      • I am in the process of putting something together about how Hashem counted Abraham’s faith as righteousness, and how the christian bible (and missionaries) misinterpret this expression.

        I will post it on my blog within the next day or two. I think you will like it!

        • Yash
          That bit in the Torah has always flummoxed me. The issue is the compatibility of Hashem’s sovereign call (election) – for example, of Israel, the “least of all peoples” INDEPENDENT of what they have done to deserve it – with Hashem choosing Abraham BECAUSE he believed in Him. I’m not sure what store you put on the Oral Torah and the Talmud interpretations of the wriitten Torah. If you do take that route, could you also give an interpretation of the written Torah independent of the tradition of the Sages.

  4. Barry, you’ve put it very well. Just one thing: the distinction between “faith” and “faithfulness.” The Tanakh uses the word “faith” only about 4 times and “faithfulness” more than 80 times. The NT uses “faith” about 230 times and “faithfulness” about 50 times. In the NT, the distinction between faith (trust, beiief) and faithfulness (works as the fruit of faith) is brougt into strong focus. The Jew doesn’t distinguish between “faith” and “works” to the extent the NT does. NT theology is “Greek” to the Jew – in both senses of the word.

  5. bography,

    Hey brother hope all is well!! I didn’t write the article on Rosh Pina titled “The Prince of The Face”, I have done my research and I have had all those quotes before i ran into the article but i actually didn’t write it! There is actually a whole lot more info on this subject that i didn’t post but i do believe that it is very important!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s