Did Vatican II really let more of scripture be her guide?


The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) claims that the fruit of this Council is an updated vision and based on Scripture. Pope John Paul II referred to Vatican II as “a compass with which to orient ourselves in the vast ocean of the third millennium.” The Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) began on October 11, 1962, and officially ended on December 8, 1965. Vatican II brought many profound changes to the RCC.

Here are some of the major outcomes of Vatican II:

1. Renewing the liturgy. The Mass could be celebrated in the vernacular instead of Latin. The priest no longer celebrated the Mass with his back to the congregation facing the altar. Pope Benedict XIV (Ratzinger) was not happy with these changes, because he said for the priest to do the Mass ad populum “toward the people,” belittles the meaning of the Mass as the sacrifice of Christ. 

2. Greater emphasis was placed on Scripture, reflected in reforms to the missal – the book of instructions and texts used for the Mass. Bible-study groups were also encouraged. Protestants would say that a greater emphasis on scripture should have led to studying it more deeply leading to questions of the validity of doctrines that cannot be extrapolated from the Bible; doctrines such as the “Treasury of merit” and Marian doctrines of the “immaculate conception,” the “assumption” (Mary not dying but taken to heaven like Elijah) and Mary as mediatrix – the “neck” between the Head (Christ) and believers (the “church”). The “treasury of merit” is related to indulgences. Here is article 1478 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins.” The Bible is clear that it is only the merits of Christ, not of anyone else, that remit punishment for sins; Christ the holy purifier from the poison of sin, the one who sits at the right hand of God the Father. With regard to “saints,” these in the Bible refer to all those who are born of God (born again). 

3. Lay people to be regarded as equal members with the hierarchy. All who are in Christ, without distinction or exception, are called to be holy. To be true to scripture, which the Council endeavoured to do, they added, a holy “priesthood.” “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light” (1 Peter 2:9). This holy “priesthood,” however, is far removed from the non-biblical “priesthood” of “holy orders,” namely, those priests who sacrifice Christ on the altar at every Mass: 1 Peter 2 – “4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” The divide between these two priesthoods is as wide as that between the wafer before and after consecration: infinite. 

4. Acknowledging God’s presence beyond the Church. The Holy Spirit is working in all religions, including “our separate Christian brothers” (Protestants). Ecumenical efforts should be made to foster dialogue with all religions. The Catholic Church, since Vatican II (1962-65), has radically changed its attitude towards inter-religious dialogue. Thomas Merton and other Catholic devotees of Eastern thought had a significant influence on changing Rome’s attitude to non-Christian religions.

Peter Kreeft, the Catholic philosopher and apologist, in his “Ecumenical Jihad,” sounds the modern Cathslamic call: “We can and should investigate and learn from the wisdom in other religions” (Peter Kreeft Ecumenical Jihad p.79). “Allah is not another God…we worship the same God”(Peter Kreeft Ecumenical Jihad p.30). “The same God! The very same God we worship in Christ is the God the Jews-and the Muslims-worship.” (Ibid. p. 160). (See God’s got sons by the tons: Ecumenical Jihad, ecumenical Shmeehad and  The influence of Universalism on society and the church).

The papal encyclical Nostra Aetate (“In Our Time”) states:

The Church therefore has this exhortation for her sons: prudently and lovingly, through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, and in witness of Christian faith and life, acknowledge,preserve, and promote the spiritual and moral goods found among these men, as well as the values in their society and culture” (NostraAetate 2 – (NostraAetate is the Declaration onthe relation of the Church to non-Christian religions proclaimed by Pope Paul VI, October, 1965). (See Buddhism, Judaism and Catholic Nostra Aetate).

Here is Pope John Paul II receiving the mark of the adorers of the Hindu god Shiva, February 2, 1986.


pope john paul hindu

Here is a RCC  tabernacle with a  budhha atop at John Paul’s inter-religious prayer meeting in Assisi, 1986.

catholic Tabernacle with a squattin buddha atop

(see Most Holy Family Monastery website).

The sacred writings of Islam, says Pope Francis, have retained some Christian teachings; Jesus and Mary receive profound veneration and it is admirable to see how Muslims both young and old, men and women, make time for daily prayer and faithfully take part in religious services. Many of them also have a deep conviction that their life, in its entirety, is from God and for God. They also acknowledge the need to respond to God with an ethical commitment and with mercy towards those most in need.” (Paragraph 253 – Apostolic Exhortation Evabgelii Gaudiam of the Holy Father Francis to the Bishops, clergy, consecrated persons and the lay faithful on the Proclamation of the Gospel in today’s world.

No surprise; we find the same sentiment in the (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Para. 841): The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. ‘The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.’” 

Visualise (and if you’re a mystic, envision) Paul, the Apostle, transposed to our times saying “Muslims (and Jews) adore the one merciful God, so it doesn’t matter if they don’t believe the following report. 

1. Who has believed our report?
and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant,
and as a root out of a dry ground:
he hath no form nor comeliness;
and when we shall see him,
there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3. He was despised and rejected of men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he has borne our griefs,
and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
and with his stripes we are healed. (Isaiah 53).

And 1 Peter 2:

24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Paul said of such gainsayers: “6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. 10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ (Galatians 1).

5. Accepting the world. Roman Catholic theology regards people as essentially good. For this reason, it hopes for the restoration of the whole world, which began with the advent of Christ, and which will be perfected when Christ returns at the end of time. The question is, if everyone is born dead in sin (the doctrine of Original Sin), which only baptism, says catholic teaching, can remove, how does this harmonise with the idea that people are essentially good. Vatican II aspires to put a greater emphasis on scripture, yet in regard to this essential doctrine of the radical corruption of human nature, which scripture makes so clear, it balks at offending the world it wants so much to please. “… having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh (essentially, in your human nature), God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses” (Colossians 2:12-13).

The doctrine of papal infallibility was announced dogmatically at Vatican 1 (1869-1870). Vatican I also announced dogmatically that there is no salvation “outside the Church,” that is, those who are not members of the RCC. Vatican II changed all that (infallibly?) and much more. Just because a thing changes doesn’t mean it, or what it changed from, was the sane thing.







14 thoughts on “Did Vatican II really let more of scripture be her guide?

  1. …………………We as Catholic make in our mass a distinction about the four Gospels other readings. When we read the Gospel we stand up and we cross ourselves. In the Gospel there are parables about people who are not Jews but they are accepted for their good deeds as the Samaritan. There are words about the fact that the house of the Father has different rooms. In the Gospel of John there are passages that refer to the fact that only trough Christ the Father will be known. But also to know the Father it doesn’t preclude the possibility of inhabiting His house. You could be a guest of the Father’s house but not know the Host. There are guests who are part of a household but do not know the person who is the owner of the house…I know some of this cases. You could even rent a house without having never met the owner of the house 🙂 Of course it would be better as a guest to know who is the owner of the place where you reside but it doesn’t make it impossible to be there as a guest. You could say that to know the Father it’s the only true Paradise and I would agree but it does not lead to be against the Father and in Hell, therefore not in His house. This what I presume the RCC is teaching. I am not sure if I am kosher since I speak of my own understanding. The RCC is right in what is preaching. If it were wrong you would not be speaking about it right now. It is this simple. In science knowledge comes in this way: a theory is discussed only when does have some validation to it otherwise it’s ignored. It has been centuries that the Catholic Church has ignored Calvinism and after Reformation the RCC has not changed one of its dogma to please Protestantism…actually it has deepen the veneration of Mary as the Mother of God. There are still priests who turns their back. For example some Dominicans have their masses in Latin and they do not face people. There are priests today who are married in the RCC. There are priests married as part of the Byzantine Catholic Church. For priests to not be married is not a dogma. It is a preference for the Roman Catholic Church until today. It could be changed but I would prefer not to but it’s not something I have to believe into it on faith only. It’s not part of the dogma. The Immaculate Conception it is and it can’t be changed and it will never change. Mary has been fundamentally part of what is specifically Holy about the Roman Catholic Church and what instead is completely lacking in many other Christian denomination. By the way Muslims like Mary too….
    The fruits have shown the way….Protestantism has become more and more sterile and confused and RCC has become richer and richer in its doctrines and in its example of true Saints. You can’t destroy the Body of Christ on earth…evil is not going to prevail as much as it is going to work against the Body of Christ on earth from inside and outside of the true Church of Christ…Evil is not going to destroy it….Bog give up on doing it 🙂

    • Maria, you seem to be saying that the many mansions Jesus is talking about cater for different religions or world views. This would, as you say, fit perfectly into the RCC system. The upshot: there’s a Christian mansion, a Jewish mansion, a Muslim mansion, a deist mansion, a voodoo mansion, an atheist mansion, a Calvinist mansion?!, and so forth. The only condition, as Pope Francis said recently (and which most Jews would say) is whether you were good and kind. If, however, Vatican II was sincere about letting scripture have more clout in its deliberations, it seems to me they would have come across this verse and said, “oops.”

      John 3:18
      He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

      For you and the RCC, by “condemned” Jesus means relegated to some other mansion than the one for believers in Him.

      Re your “The RCC is right in what is preaching. If it were wrong you would not be speaking about it right now.”

      So, was the RCC right about it’s doctrine, which it has since abandoned that babies go to limbo, a doctrine that caused much misery for millions of mothers over many centuries. I hope you’re not going to say that this doctrine was not ex cathedra, and, therefore, not from the Holy Spirit.

      • //////////////////// You are perhaps too much confusing doctrines with dogma…:) Doctrines are dogmatic in certain ways but they are not dogmaaa..
        I have to believe in the Immaculate Conception and the Immaculate Assumption to be a Catholic and it is not changeable by any other Pope because they were made ex cathedra….doctrines are changeable but when they are given they hold as ‘tie’ in Heaven.
        Doctrine is changeable…thank God. What you tie on earth will be tied in Heaven and there is no say about how many times the tie is going to be untied…Thank God that little children are not anymore in limbo then. What do you complain about? Are you complaining about the fact that the Catholic Church is trying not to tie too strongly who is going to Heaven and who is not? And anyway the RCC never said that it’s doctrines is superior to the the will of God that ultimately is the only will that counts 🙂 It is called grace of God. When you are confessing or not confessing all your sin at the end you are left in the mercy of God for Catholics… A little of humility is part of any not fanatic credo mister as you are supposed to know.
        Not generous mister…not generous. Let the Catholic Church gives a layway to as many as possible to access God at the end of the world…meanwhile Catholics have indulgences not to be relegated in a waiting room for too long 🙂

          • …………………………………………………….. By the way…I believe that the Holy Spirit is speaking to us still today because is a living God and the Scriptures are not the only place that God said he would have communicated with people…hearts are still part of the conversation today as the Bible promised. For sure there have been mothers thinking about their babies…and their conversation with God has opened the Catholic Church to the Holy Spirit’s voice to consider tham to be part of the kingdom or God. It is a merciful God but it is still a God that wants us to want on our own will. If you pray for the aborted children to find a place in Heaven and there are many voices about this human will expressed it…God is going to mercifully grant them their place close to his mother because they do not have any will of their own since they did die before their own will was formed. Mary is the mother queen of Heaven and she likes children…We pray and God is going to listen…but we need to pray meaning to ask for what we are suffering about and to pray for our sin not to be afflicted on innocent souls is a good thing therefore aborted children if they find prayers will see the light of God too. It is very coherent with the idea of Free will mister…someone has to decide where to be at a certain point. God is the ultimate grant it…but there is human will involved all the way as a Jew you are supposed to know it. The Old testament speaks always about who is going to do what is right in the eyes of God…how did you forget all about the Scriptures in its entirety? 🙂

            • Maria, as you know the great divide between the RCC and Protestants is that the former believes that revelation is ongoing while the latter believes it is contained in scripture alone. That is why the Reformers were so against mysticism.

    • The destruction of the Vatican is decided and told us in advance:


      From the book of Revelations and from St. Malachy.

      “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
      where all who had ships on the sea
      became rich through her wealth!
      In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’

      “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
      Rejoice, you people of God!
      Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
      For God has judged her
      with the judgment she imposed on you.”

      • Then it is true what was said by the Catholic Church when she was not sure about including or not Revelation in the Canon of the Scriptures.. It was said .it would have been used and misused by all the crazy people of the history to come and this is what has happened Crazy people have come and are coming. They get up a good morning in the middle of nowhere (without knowing history languages contexts…in general any exegesis even at basic level and without having seen anything other than the cows in their backyard…. by the way do you know that in Hebrew and in Aramaic there was no word for cousin therefore every cousin was a brother of Jesus?)l and they feel entitle to say who would be the next or last Anti-Christ and the end of time…. well at least many Catholics would never presume to know anything about who is the next Anti Christ. They consider funny all the prophetic BS they hear on Tv and at every corner of this loud prophetic auto entitled progeny of Isaiah (in their own bombastic minds)….. readers of the ‘know how for dummy books guide to how to fool people for prophetic pastors who ask money at every corner… before in the middle of nowhere and now on TV Channels radio internet etc…as a virus of MEGA PROPORTION……but actually only filling the space of quite ugly places they call churches for the moment of the show with their make up and suits on…. it would be funny but it is most of all tragic for Christianity…The Jesuit order was instituted by a Spanish noble man who was a soldier after Reformation for the defense of RCC and therefore he was trying to avoid this disgrace that is everywhere vilifying the Good News spoken with no respect at all everywhere there is some bucks to be made or some veneration to be gained in front of an audience and for the audience …speaking about true idolatry…
        . By the way your link has many mistakes to be corrected…historically and linguistically speaking of course 🙂 and also Malacky was made saint by the Roman Catholic Church not by Luther or Calvin and therefore the AntiChrist and so is for Peter and Paul and millions of martyrs who are buried under the AntiChrist in your opinion 🙂 Good to know that the Anti Christ has such incredible power to decide to bury Peter under himself….it looks like he is superior to Christ…don’t you think? If this would be true 🙂 but it is not…and perhaps you are the AntiChrist in wanting to put down the place where the first apostles found their death in building the church you are trying to beat up now 🙂 Do you ever ask yourselves you Protestants if you are the actual AntiChrist…no it would be too much thinking in the right direction. And now I am going to say three Hail Mary for having said such terrible things but knowing that at least they are all true 🙂 other than the AntiChrist accusation but it is good to know the feeling of being considered the AntiChrist for you too thousands of Protesting Churches ….and who knows I am right in that section too…think about it. I have a good record of being right when I am speaking ‘prophetically’ 🙂 I saw this morning videos about a pastor who speaks about pissing standing for men and synagogues being anti-Christ …you are all in good company.

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