Thanks for Being Rude…no, really, Thanks.

I posted a question on Wintery Knight’s blog regarding the debate between Michael Brown, an Arminian, and James White, a Calvinist. Wintery is an Arminian, that is, he does NOT- as is the situation with most professing Christians – believe that a person is so dead (in sin) that he is unable to choose to believe in Jesus Christ. Here is my comment to Wintery: “Hi Wintery, Your position seems to be that there is something inherent in people that (inwardly) determines their acceptance of Christ. Is that correct?” As many others have found with Wintery Knight’s “awaiting moderation,” my comment ended up in the fiery moat. I posted another Arminian-unfriendly comment on another blog a few days ago. It is still awaiting moderation. It seems, alas, conflagration as well. Hope I’m wrong. I don’t want to be rude but as a brooding Calvinist, I feel compelled to confront Arminianism whenever I have the chutzpah to do so. I posted this comment in “Thanks for Being Rude…no, really, Thanks,” which i now reblog from the site of “Clothed with Joy.” Thanks for not being rude about me being rude. My comment on #3 (fleshed out a bit): You say “her attitude reminded me of others who were presented with a much more marvelous gift and responded, not with gratitude, but with rudeness, hate, disdain and ignorance. Jesus. On the cross. Making a way for sinful, hopeless humanity to once again be with God. Emmanuel, God With Us. And what has been the response to this most excellent gift over the centuries? Gratitude, yes, thankfully, occasionally, yes; but much more often, the response to this gift is rudeness, hate, disdain and ignorance.” The gist: people are offered the gift of salvation but many refuse. So, for you, which is the majority Christian view – it’s called Arminianism, people are not born dead in sins, as we read in Ephesians 2: Ephesians 2:5-9 [My square brackets]: Even when we were dead in sins, [he] hath quickened [regenerated] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. It seems that by “dead” in sins, you mean “deadish,” that is, there remains in every unregenerate person enough power to grab the gift of faith. But this cannot be if it is true that faith is a gift, which is what “THAT not of yourselves,” means. There is nothing about a possible gift. If that were so, then faith would not be God’s gift to you but your gift to God. Jesus is a savior, not a possible savior because “possible” means possible failure, a miserable failure,, because as you conveyed and as the Bible says few are those that enter through the narrow gate. Jesus died for his sheep. Those who reject Jesus are not of his flock, as is clear in John 10. His sheep hear his voice. John 10 22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” The causal connection in 10:27 is not “hear his voice and then become his sheep” but “if you are a sheep you will – certainly – hear his voice.” This becomes crystal clear (one would think!) in John 6:35-44, specifically v. 35, 40 and 44. 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” 41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. But Arminians cannot or refuse to follow the grammar.

Clothed with Joy

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On Saturday I had the opportunity to join with friends and strangers to pack and deliver Thanksgiving food items to five families in a very poor city in NJ. I’ve written about it here, Loving with My Eyes Wide Open. This post is not so much a follow up as it is a reflection on one particular aspect of the day’s deliveries.

Nine of us, three adults and six children, piled into a 12 passenger van with our boxes full of frozen turkey and gravy, cans of green beans and boxes of stuffing and miscellaneous other items, and headed to our first address. It was like the weirdest treasure hunt ever.

It seemed best if everyone stayed in the vehicle and I went alone to knock on doors to make sure someone was at home before opening the van and allowing the children out. Sadly, we struck out at Home #1…

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4 thoughts on “Thanks for Being Rude…no, really, Thanks.

    • I’m sure she will be grateful for your prayers.
      She said in a reply to me on her site:

      “Well, if you say Arminianism or Calvinism my mind starts to spin. But I do know what I believe. I believe we are dead in our sins apart from Christ. I believe that is only by grace that are saved, not anything that we do although there is a response required on our part however that works exactly, I couldn’t really tell you. Somethings are mystery. It’s totally, completely all God Who chooses us and saves us, yet he allows us to respond with faith.”

      Here is a trick question. Do you think – from her comment above – she is an Arminian or a Calvinist?

      • I think I would still press for what “yet he allows us to respond with faith” means and have it unpacked a little more. I think to be rightly a Calvinist require that even our turning towards Christ in repentance and faith is the working and the determination by God which is not fully spelled out. So I would say she’s not a Calvinist.

  1. Here is my reply (20 Dec) to her comment. She clicked “Like.” (“I like. Calvinism?”).

    CwJoy

    Yes, salvation is “totally all of God.” But “what about free will?” is the predictable cry. What do we make of “salvation is TOTALLY/ALL all of God,” which you and I agree is the reality.

    If salvation is all of the Lord, then instead of saying “yet” he allows us to respond, which implies a (“mysterious”) contradiction, we should rather, and indeed can logically and joyfully say “and” he allows us to respond. How is this so?

    As scripture says, all unbelievers are dead in sin, and so hate (the true) God. Another way of speaking is that our wills are in bondage to sin. We are slaves, in chains.

    There are two ways in which Christians explain salvation:

    1. The Arminian view (the label comes from Jacob Arminius).

    God comes to all the slaves in the world, who love more than anything their slavery to sin – indeed reject the very idea of sin. Now God through his powerful mercy (grace) makes it possible for all to see that they are sinners and in bondage, and need to be saved from their sin. He then offers to set them free. YET (the Arminian is speaking) most refuse. Those that accept he sets free.

    The salvation process on this view is: we are deadISH in sin, aliveISH to God. God, through his grace, gives us the possibility to become much more alive than we were, to make us a newISH creature (I would then be Jewish newish). He offers (the “gift” of) faith. Some take the gift. They believe. Next, God regenerates them (they are born again). This is back to front because if you believe, this can only occur if God had previously regenerated you, and granted you the desire to believe and repent. According to the Arminian view, the reason why you were saved is because there is something better – they will deny this vehemently – in you than in the person that is damned. Jesus the possible savior becomes – because of you opening your dead heart – a real savior.

    2. The Biblical view (Calvinist, after John Calvin)

    The salvation process on this view is: we are not deadish but dead, dead, in sin. God, through his grace makes some alive, that is, completely alive, transforming them into new creatures. He raises us (regenerates us – born again) from the dead and plants in our renewed souls the gift of faith, which we receive/accept with joy. We repent of our sin. The reason why you were saved is not because there was something in you that decided to “give God a chance” but because after he regenerated you from death to life, he freed you from the bondage to your sin. As a result, you were overcome with gratitude and joyfully received the new life he gave you.

    The crunch is this: it is impossible to accept God – believe and repent – BEFORE God has raised you from the dead, before he has broken your chains. So then, God first births you anew (regenerates you) AND – consequently – you are drawn irresistibly to him. The dead cannot refuse or hate to be resurrected (Lazarus didn’t complain). Result: they are made free, which they accept with great joy. In a nutshell, “Salvation is of the Lord” where words such as “totally” and “all” (of the Lord) add nothing to the meaning but serve as emphasis, as in “I don’t REALLY want to be rude.”

    But, but that is not fair! What’s not fair about a judge not having mercy on a criminal? See Romans 9.

    I discuss more on the difference between Arminianism and Calvinism here.

    https://onedaringjew.wordpress.com/calvinism-and-arminianism/

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