The burning of the Qur’an: Pastor Terry Jones and the Imam

I discuss the video of Pastor Terry Jones vs Muslim Cleric Imam Al-Qazwini regarding Jones’ burning of the Qur’an.The person who posted it on YouTube added the caption. Interesting clip, A must see for every person out there that has misconceptions about Islam.” The caption tells us, at the most, that the person who posted it likes Islam.

Here are few excepts (verbatim and summations) of the conversation. The context of the video was a TV discussion involving the presenter, the Imam and a Christian Pastor, Ed Rowe versus Terry Jones. My comments and clarifications within the conversation are in italics and square brackets.

Terry jones says that Muslims who come to the US willing to obey the US constitution are welcome, but if they come with the agenda of wanting to impose Sharia, they are not welcome. The Imam asks Jones what he means by Sharia. Jones says his knowledge of Sharia is “somewhat limited” but what he said about obeying the USA Constitution applies to any movement. He says the punishment in Sharia is brutal, “it involves stoning and other cruel forms of punishment. And one of the aspects of that [USA] constitution is freedom of speech.”

Presenter: I don’t think the Imam will disagree with you.

Imam: “No, definitely [that is, he doesn’t disagree]. So why all this commotion? People in this country have a right to burn the Qur’an if they want to. But for you [to burn the Qur’an] who call yourself a pastor.”

[That is the Imam’s first lie. That’ll be the day that Muslims believe or that Islam teachers that anyone has the right in any country to burn the Qur’an.

Jesus was a great messenger who asked his followers to embrace others., to love his enemies.”

[We shall have to see where the misconception (deception?) lies. Where did the Imam read that Jesus commands to love your enemies. Not in the Islamic literature, but in the Bible. So does the Imam, as Mohammad did, accept the Bible of his day as the uncorrupted Word of God?“5:46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.” And: 57:27 We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy …”

These verses prove that Mohammad (Allah) did not believe the Bible was corrupt].

As a pastor I don’t think you have grounds to burn a divine book that respects and glorifies Jesus for whom you speak in his name.

[Jesus would never regard a book as divine that says he never did what he came to earth to do – to die for sinners. What does the Qur’an say about the death of Jesus? From surah 4:157. “That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

According to Jesus, Allah is at best certainly not exalted in power and wise. The Bible – “None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory” 1 Corinthians 2:8]

If you read the Qur’an that you burned three weeks ago, you will find out that almost on every page there is a verse in the Qur’an glorifying Jesus. “So, continues the Imam, what I think what you did three weeks ago was an insult against Jesus. Against your own faith because if you really believe in Jesus the the Qur’an glorifies Jesus. So when you burn the Qur’an you’re insulting Christianity.”

[The Imam said above that Jesus is on almost on every page of the Qur’an. Let’s see. In the Qur’an, there are 51 verses (ayahs) out of a total of 6236 about Jesus – .8%, in 12 of its 114 chapters (surahs). In 6 of these, Jesus is referred to as the messenger (of Allah). As far as the Qur’an glorifying Jesus, never. It is Allah whom the Qur’an glorifies, pointing out that he (Jesus) is no more than a messenger: 4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. See also 5:116 “He (Jesus) will say: ‘Glory to thee’.”

Jesus is given honor and considered righteous, but never glorified. He is, like Mohammed, a messenger, who is the final and most important of all the messengers].

5:75 Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food.

19:19 He said: “Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.”

And this one, where the Holy Spirit in the New Testament is replaced by “Achmad.”

61:6 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Achmad.” But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, “this is evident sorcery!”

[Achmad in 61:6! Muslims switch the biblical Greek word parakletos (one who comes alongside – the Holy Spirit for Christians with paraklutos (the praised one) because there is a reference to Achmad in surah 61:6. See more on this topic here].

I think, continues the Imam, Pastor Jones needs to get educated on the words he is talking about. He is well misinformed about things he has been talking about.”

[Jones is not misinformed but insufficiently informed. That was his great weakness. He couldn’t provide even one verse – there are many dozens – from the Qur’an. Terry, next time, take the miniscule trouble to provide at least one source from the Qur’an or Hadiths to back up your beef].

Jones: “I am warning against Sharia and Jihad.

Presenter: In so doing aren’t you labeling everyone who is in Islam?

[All TV presenters in the popular media, for example, CNN, Sky News, are sycophantic Islamophiles, not necessarily by nature, but by orders from upstairs. One thing we can congratulate them for is their crass ignorance of Islam].

Jones: “I have made that very very clear. There are probably millions of Muslims who are peaceful but there is a radical element that cannot be denied.. are burned a book and seven thousand miles away people were killed. Something is definitely wrong.”

[Why then does Jones burn the Qur’an if the issue is the “radical element.” Jones is mince meat!].

Presenter: “Don’t you think you have blood on your hands? Because of what you did here in the USA 12 innocent people were killed.”

Jones: “Oh absolutely not. What I do believe is that those people in those governments should be held accountable.”

Presenter – Reverend Roe [ who is involved in bringing Muslims and Christians closer together] let me bring you in here because there are zealots in every faith. He [Jones] calls himself a Christian so do you. You read the same Bible. Why the difference in attitude.

Reverend Roe: I’m not here to defend violence anywhere on the part of the Christian Taliban (directed at Jones, of course) – or anybody else. I’m here to say that what happened with burning the Qur’an didn’t just burn the Qur’an it burned the sermon on the mount, Matthew 5. They burned every statement that Jesus made about loving enemies… People might think that Christianity supports what you did. I’m here to say that there is nothing in the Gospel that supports the burning of the Qur’an. And if you knew what was going to happen – the violence – the blood that was spilled.. The violence is your violence. You burnt a whole lot more than the Qur’an. You burnt every statement from Jesus Christ about non-violence. The peaceful Jesus that I know would never have done what you did.

[Reverend, aren’t you going a tad over the top? Also, the Imam does not agree with you. Didn’t you hear him say “People in this country have a right to burn the Qur’an if they want to,” but Pastors shouldn’t do it? Let me also, like the Reverend, refer to Matthew: Muslims do not be afraid that Allah will be cross with you if you do not go on the rampage whenever Islam is attacked. You don’t have to go out and kill bodies. In any case, people whose bodies you kill should not be afraid: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 12:28). This is the Jesus Islam rejects].

[I now want to make what I consider the most important point in this saga. Terry Jones says that he is doing what the Bible directs him to do. The Bible is not clear on this. In contrast, the Qur’an says Christians are blasphemers destined for hell fire; they need to convert to Islam, or  be subdued and pay a large tax. And Jews are monkeys and pigs. Do we see any Christians killing Muslims who follow these teachings?  There are hate speech laws in the US. I ask Ed Rowe, wouldn’t he consider what the Qur’an says about Jews  and Christians more serious than a Christian, who does not represent most devout Christians, burning  a book that says, at best, such vile, insulting things to Christians? Furthermore, instead of fawning over the Imam, why don’t you tick him off?

Presenter (Deceived parrot): “Would Jesus have done what you did?

Jones: “Yes, I think he definitely would. In acts 19:19 “books worth great sums of money” were burned. In the Old Testament the godly kings burned the high places. But I think we are missing the point… We’re not here to discuss the burning o the Koran. We are here to send a very clear message to the radical elements in Islam.”

Presenter to Imam: “There are many Americans who fear Islam.

Imam: “They fear Islam because of people like Pastor Terry jones who are working on their paranoia, who are making a monster out of Islam. I would respectfully ask Terry Jones to go and read he Qur’an instead of burning the Qur’an and he will be amazed and surprised on the commonalities that exist between Islam and Christianity. The problem is that Pastor Jones has not read the Qur’an. He has no knowledge of the Qur’an Therefore, he is trying to make a monster out of the Qur’an. By that he is terrifying Americans against Islam and telling them Islam is the danger. Now, no one is denying that there are radicals in Islam. There are radicals in christianity.”

[Pastor Jones, it was indeed silly of you to come to such a debate with zilch knowledge of the Qur’an].

Islam, continues the Imam, is “the Divine faith that has so much to offer to this world and humanity. The divine faith that speaks highly of Christianity and Judaism. “Someone who does not believe in Jesus cannot claim to be a Muslim. In order to be a true Muslim you have to embrace Jesus and his message. It seems that pastor jones does not get that.”

[The Imam is either ignorant (if so, how did he get his job?) or a liar. 1. The “divine” faith does not speak highly of Christianity and Judaism at all. For one, Jews are described on several occasions in the Qur’an as monkeys and pigs. Another, Christians under Islamic rule are subjugated, treated like outcasts, and have to pay a huge tax. Why do you think Egypt is 90% Muslim today. Most Christians couldn’t bear the hardship and converted to Islam when the Muslims hordes took over their country in the 7th century. The Qur’an rejects the fundamental doctrines of Christianity such as the Trinity, the incarnation, vicarious atonement through the shedding of Jesus’ blood].

What’s the difference between an Islamist and a Muslim?

Robert Spencer of JihadWatch writes:

“DHS [Department of Homeland Securiy] Secretary Jeh Johnson just said that to call the Islamic State Islamic would be “dignifying them as occupying some form of Islam.” And so here we see the cognitive dissonance clearly: the Islamic State is impatient with Syrians whom they claim know nothing about Islam, and non-Muslim authorities in the West (and Muslim authorities as well) insist that it is actually the jihadis of the Islamic State who know nothing about Islam. At very least, Western intelligence agents and policymakers should study the Islamic State’s understanding of Islam, so as to comprehend these jihadis’ motives and goals, and be able to counter them more effectively. But they will not do that, because that would lead them into study of…Islam. (Robert Spencer, “Islamic State jihadis complain that “the Syrians do not know anything of the Islamic religion”).

Most, if not all, Western leaders sing the same silly tune: ISIS has nothing to do with “peaceful” Islam. What is the touchy truth: 

All Islamists are Muslims, but not all Muslims are Islamists. Why is  this so? Because an Islamist is one who follows the letter and the spirit of the Qur’an to a Q, while many Muslims don’t. Who are the Islamists par excellence? ISIS, Al Qaeda and their ilk? The ignorant or pussilanimous refer to the latter as “radical.” In one sense, they are right – the etymological sense. “Radical” derives from the Latin root “root” (radix). Islamists go deep down into the roots of Islam, while many Muslims sit high in the branches, In sum, “Islam” in its unmutilated form is radical. That explains its mutilations, which embrace two kinds: verbal – chopping and changing Qur’anic revelations (for example, abrogation) and chopping off heads.

Most of those in the branches either encourage the radicals – or remain mum, for fear of attacking the root from which they spring and the certain repercussions coming down upon their heads.